Signe Riisalo: We spend a lot of money irrationally

Minister of Social Protection Signe Riisalo. Photo: Sander Ilvest

New Postimees TV series “Minister in the Crossfire” will interview all ministers in Kaja Kallas’ cabinet. Minister of Social Protection Signe Riisalo gets the ball rolling.

You have described yourself as someone who feels most comfortable in a crisis situation. Does this mean that you are right at home in the middle of the pandemic?

There are all kinds of people and they can have very different motivations, moving either towards or away from something. A crisis in need of solving serves as motivation for me, both personally and professionally speaking. The crisis is a catalyst for me.

There was a different minister in charge of the population crisis in the previous government, while the new cabinet also has a position its predecessor lacked. Has addressing the population crisis landed in your administrative area?

There are several ways to approach this matter: politically, technically and fundamentally. The Ministry of Social Affairs has on many occasions had two ministers, with the social protection minister in charge of family policy. At the ministry, we talk about pensions, life expectancy, births, healthy years. Everything except migration, talking about population policy. In a way, we have returned to our normal state now. I will work with [Minister of Health and Labor] Tanel Kiik, as our topics overlap to a great degree, also as concerns population policy.

Will you be looking at demographics more broadly, beyond new births and also as concerns people’s well-being in general? If life is good for both the older and younger generations, children will follow.

I am a social work expert and that is my educational background. A person’s entire lifespan is what I prioritize in my work. From birth to death, as they say, and everything in between. All of these topics need to be covered. On the other hand, population policy is something I have criticized in the past. We have lacked a central capacity for planning and analysis in terms of how to compensate for population decrease and aging, while maintaining opportunities for self-realization and keeping the state sustainable. We need to boost our capacity for analyzing data and future scenarios. I am talking about more than simple births and deaths forecasts. While not all aspects of migration can be forecast, we can study how many people with certain characteristics we have and what kind of services and needs we must cover. We often try to solve problems as they land on our desk, while they will have changed by tomorrow.

I think I am not wrong to suggest that the child protection system is a matter close to your heart. What would you like to change or improve during your term as minister?

We created the system together with good colleagues in the ministry, the National Social Insurance Board. It has been implemented in local governments. But no system is perpetual and this one was created back in its own day. It might have been ahead of the times in some respects and behind in others.

Please give an example.

For example, the prevention landscape that was included in the law and that people had a hard time understanding at first. Prevention means having to spend less in the future, whereas we are not talking 10-15 years from now. Let us take the children we help enter the labor market, obtain an education and create a family. A person’s ability to start and maintain a family and raise children needs to start with a safe childhood. That is how we will have people to take life forward in Estonia.

How come Estonia is lagging behind the rest of Europe when it comes to taking care of relatives?

There are other problems we need to face. Care for loved ones is a painful and multifaceted topic. It places the caregiver in a very difficult situation either because they have to pay for a place in a nursing home or take care of their relatives on a daily basis. [In the latter case] the person is cut off from the labor market, while these people usually also have children. If that child is old enough to attend university, that is another expense for the family. Eventually, choices have to be made. People usually sacrifice personal development, interests and hobbies and concentrate on caring for loved ones or making enough money to pay someone else to do it. But I would not limit this topic to care for relatives. It is long-term care and it primarily consists of prevention, reduction, offering innovative home care services that allow people to stay independent for as long as possible. Help from a relative when taking care of everyday matters is justified, while we should develop care services to allow people to go to work and make money to support their children – services that come to you. It is an important avenue of development.

Such a service costs a lot of money. Where will tiny Estonia find the money?

We are spending quite a lot of money irrationally. For example, the fact that we do not help people until it is time to consider or seek institutionalized care. The latter is always more expensive than necessity-based home services. We need to look at the resources we have and there is clearly a shortage. It is a challenge and the coalition agreement reads that we need to analyze our possibilities here. We have also discussed care insurance. I am not sure people always understand what is meant by care insurance. People think of private insurance, an individual payment for which the person gets something in return. There are different insurance schemes that we need to analyze. The state has a role to play here, as do local governments and people. The role of next of kin will remain important, while it should be pleasant and on the level of human communication and support. Not in the current volume – paying for roughly 80 percent of costs.

We have single parents whose child benefit is still just €19 per month. Do you plan to change that?

We need to specify the term (single parent – ed.) here. A child usually has two parents and talking about a so-called single parent – where the child’s birth certificate makes no mention of the father – their number is falling. It is a child’s right to know their parents and have a relationship with them if possible. From the point of view of child rights, I would not like to promote or render more attractive a situation where the birth certificate lacks an entry for the father. The goal should be for every child to have a mother and a father – two parents. If a parent is truly alone and needs material support, it needs to be a necessity-based instrument not a universal one. If we hike this particular support instrument based on a single aspect, people are going to go after it. And that is not in the interests of children.

What should be the ideal family model for bringing up children?

A family to grow up in. The most important thing is to have a family. Secondly, love and care. A child also needs dignified role models. Adults in a child’s life need to be present. That is what matters most.

I believe you understand where I’m going with this.

Of course. (Laughs.)

The concept of marriage as it is provided in the Family Act will not be changed. That is what it says in the coalition agreement.

I can only talk about my personal opinion here. I have said it before. I do not think that people desperately need marriage equality or Estonia to amend the Family Act. That said, I signed the Estonian Greens’ marriage equality petition. I believe that people really are equal in the right to make free choices. What could be the ideal solution? I believe that equal opportunities could be ensured by solving the Registered Partnership Act implementing provisions problem.

Those are muddy waters. How should the provisions be changed?

They are not muddy at all! The implementing provisions pose a technical and legal problem. There is nothing muddy about it! We simply have a valid Registered Partnership Act, while provisions of a lot of other laws that have to do with marriage have not been coordinated. It means a revisions and reorganization of the legal environment. Nothing too complicated!