Online debate: Is Scotland better off in the United Kingdom?

Photo: Pm

Better for Scotland to remain part of the UK, thinks former British journalist, now a Tallinn City Council member Abdul Turay in today’s online debate.  Estonian Debating Society’s team composed of Els Heile and Edgar Oganesjan stands for the opposite.

Please read opening statements by both sides and proceed to forward your questions as comments to this article – the best of these will be served to debaters in part two of the debate – the cross-examination! 

ABDUL TURAY'S OPENING STATEMENT

We love Scotland and we want it stay part of our family of nations for us all.

The British people invented the modern World, we built and lost an Empire. We invented the games the World plays.

Sherlock Holmes and Peter Pan were created by Scotsmen living in England and Harry Potter was created by an Englishwoman living in Scotland. We invented rock music and modern dance music.

As an Englishman, it would break my heart to see Scotland leave. I remember as a child running round the playground singing «Scotland are the greatest football team». I was devastated when WE, meaning Scotland, lost.

The SNP separatists government won't allow Scots living in the rest of the UK to vote in the referendum. They know Scots people living in the rest of the UK would vote for the Union. The English care about Scotland, cheer on Scotland at football matches.

Divorce is expensive acrimonious and ugly

Scotland will be impoverished by separation. One solitary poll favouring a yes vote a week ago, caused total panic in business.

The separatists want to keep the pound. «It's Scotland's pound,» they say. The separatists want the pound because they know a new currency will collapse and nobody will be able to pay off their mortgages.

The separatists are not even interested in independence they are only interested in separation from England.

It's like Estonia wanting independence from Russia but then wanting to keep the rouble. «It's Estonia's rouble». It's absurd.

All the arguments the separatist use against United Kingdom, could be used against the European Union. Yet no one wants Scotland to leave in EU.

Industry expert predict the oil will run out, but even if it doesn't we can work out an arrangement where the money from the oil goes only to Scotland. Devo max is on the table.

Leaving the United Kingdom also means leaving the EU. Scotland won't be able to get back in. The Spanish, who have their own separatist problem, won't stand for it. The EU will not let in an independent Scotland back without a currency. In Russia, Putin is rubbing his hands in glee at the prospect of a Western power's tearing itself apart.

Summary

Finally let's not forget what is behind all this. The Yes agenda is driven by a bunch of bitter middle aged men you will not let go of the 80s. Thatcher's government was unpopular in Scotland. Every other demographic, the very young, the old, and women of all ages, are for the Union. Let's not let bitter men who will not let go of the past ruin the lives of everyone.

Let stay together. We are better together.

ESTONIAN DEBATING SOCIETY'S OPENING STATEMENT

To begin with, we would like to thank Mr Abdul Turay for his opening speech and showing support by England.

However, the question for Scotland is which the best way to move forward is. Today, looking at the political discourse and fundamental values of England and Scotland, it seems that the two countries are moving towards different directions and thus it would be more beneficial for Scotland to continue as an independent country.

We would like to begin with providing some counterarguments. First of all, Mr Turay is concerned with the financial instability that might threaten independent Scotland, especially in relation to the currency and oil.

There is nothing preventing Scotland from using the pound after independence, it is an internationally tradble currency. Furthermore, maintaining the Pound would be beneficial for both parties. It would ease the transition period, provide stability for English and Scottish businesses alike and let Scotland and the rest of the UK to trade easily with their major partner.

Talking about the oil; devo max which is another version of powers granted for Scotland by the central government would not mean that Scotland receives 90% of the oil tax revenues. However, this is the share that independent Scotland would have according to the Geneva Agreement on natural resources.

The considerable supply of alternative energy resources, including wind and marine energy solidifies the stability of Scotland’s future and makes it an attractive member for the EU. An independent Scotland would be a free, democratic, and prosperous nation that already complies with all EU terms, we see no reason why Scotland should not be accepted as a member state.

It is also important to acknowledge that, although Scotland has its own parliament, the powers which the Scottish Parliament has are limited. At the same time, they are under-represented in London, having only 52 seats out of 650. This means that Scottish votes have a very little effect on the policies of the central government. Scotland is a much more left-wing country but by being under-represented, it has to accept the austerity measures taken by the Conservative government.

Social values have for a while been with different importance in Scotland and England. Scotland which has its 5 universities in the top 200 in the world has free university education while England has been increasing the fees. Also, Social Security provided by the state is under a threat in the UK since England is moving towards privatization. However, Scotland wants to protect and preserve it and is already offering free care for elderly and free prescriptions.

Therefore it is recognisable that Scotland and the rest of the UK are two different countries with different political and social discourses. In order for Scotland to preserve its own identity and values, it would be best to vote for independence. There will be obstacles to overcome but since the country has vast resources and enough will to prosper, the world could welcome a new democratic country.

The debate is happening by cooperation of Postimees and Estonian Debating Society.