Interior minister prioritises securing border with Russia

For interior minister Hanno Pevkur next four year’s topmost task is completing development of Estonia-Russia border. As for cutting staff, he vows to begin at the very ministry.

In the new cabinet, you’re among the few not needing time to get adjusted. Yet, a year ago you came ever so close to becoming prime minister – and now you’re interior minister, from where the road to prime ministerial post is very long. Upset?  

As a kind person noted, I’m supposedly the first person in the again-independent Estonia to get back to being interior minister after government change.

When it comes to the prime minister issue, no use going back to that today. The party has chosen, Taavi Rõivas is chairman of the party, voters and Riigikogu have chosen and handed him the mandate. I serve Estonia people as I am able, and in the post I’m trusted with.

No clenched fist in pocket?

Never has been. Naturally, that day a year ago will be long remembered. It was a very confusing and eventful day. Which will not mean I would not do my current work with all my heart and with love. I do.

Laying off public servants is written in coalition treaty. Over the years, police has thinned its own staff by about a thousand, the ministry has added about 70. In which will you be doing the cutting?

I have stated that there’s no more room for cuts in police and rescue. Indeed, police has shrunk by about a thousand over these past five years. Meanwhile, what has grown is the interior ministry’s IT-agency SMIT – which is logical, as it didn’t exist before.

Regarding the ministry, majority of the added employees are either of temporary nature – as an example of that, we are doing an EU projects for the recording of air passenger data, which is temporary work – or has to do with administrating EU money. But, asking if there’s room to cut the ministry, then: yes, there is.

Hopefully, the month ahead will provide for some kind of a solution regarding the greatest scandal of last year. Which is the kidnapping of security police officer Eston Kohver from Estonian territory. Did anyone at Security Police even assume responsibility for the failed operation?

For over 20 years, never had interior ministry executed surveillance regarding service at Security Police. In the Eston Kohver case, I decided to do that. All processes, the entire chain of command was reviewed – for understandable reasons, I cannot reveal too much here, but conclusions have been drawn.

Jailed at Lefortovo prison, is Mr Kohver drawing a daily fee for assignment abroad?

No-one has sent Eston to Russia and there’s no fee for assignment abroad. But naturally his salary has not disappeared, he is continually in the service of Estonian Republic. Which means he is getting paid. In every way, we are also helping Eston’s family. We are doing everything for Eston’s family to be kept and protected.

In your domain, what is for you the most important thing underway?

Naturally, the current priority is the border and its completion. As we understand, this regrettably isn’t a too quick process. We need to consider that the entire Eastern border from Narva-Jõesuu till Parmu Village down below is a very big work, stretched for the four years.

But it is important to increasingly address the security situation and ensure that the security agencies have sufficient means to protect constitutional order i.e. in addition to the development of military national defence, we are increasingly focussing on development of internal security. 

Having the border fully built would be something indeed. I hope you will manage under four years …

It is difficult to promise a shorter term for technically, construction-wise, the entire border – on lake, river and mainland – cannot be built that fast. There are so many kilometres and technical solutions. There’s lots of works there beginning with laying the cables and ending with physical structures.

What I’m concerned about is that the government as an entity would realise the unavoidability of the investment. It is written in coalition treaty and it is my task to keep constantly reminding the government members of it. We will have to plan at least a couple of dozen million euros into next year budget to continue the works.

In near future, the parliament will tackle ratification of Estonia-Russia border treaty. This will be a place for political point-scoring as it will be claimed Pechory (Petseri) should still belong to Estonia. What does the minister think of stands like that? 

Between Estonian Republic and Russia, there needs to be a border clearly fixed and defined by parliaments of both countries. It is definitely also possible to live with a temporary border line, but to avoid all kinds of disputes … We have this Saatse «boot», for instance, where people are driving through. But should somebody happen to get a flat tyre there, they risk with the possibility of being arrested by Russian border guards for illegal crossing as in the Saatse Boot no-one may stop.

But a border treaty is not to avoid single cases like that. We all do realise it is unavoidably important to have a defined border.

It has been said, in Russia, that there will be no third try.

I cannot comment on that. We will have to consider, though, that if we want to build a very good and strong border, it would make sense to do that on a border line that will be final. Building out the entire border will cost about €70m, which is too expensive to do it several times.

Putting together the border guard special unit is underway and people are still being sought to guard the border. Regarding the quality of those desiring to be employed, these competitions have not proven too much of a success. Why is that?

The reasons vary. To improve the situation, one thing we have done is begin teaching preliminary courses of internal security in gymnasiums, at the initiative of Academy of Security Sciences. In addition to the existent ones, three schools in South-Eastern Estonia will launch this study in September 1^st. For the very reason that for a border-guard, knowing the local conditions is also important. There has been a rather good deal of interest. I hope that a large part of those who get the first taste at gymnasium will decide to go study at Academy of Security Sciences afterwards.

Another idea is to take a more flexible look at those already on the labour market and desiring to come serve the Estonian state. Let’s see what comes out of that: in rescue, for instance, one may come to work and only then go study. Perhaps that is a trend to apply broadly, elsewhere.

In police and border guard, the wage level begins at €975 which is about the Estonian average.  The coalition treaty reads that in internal security, wages should rise faster but it is feared the level will stick.

Let’s not forget that as late as last year the minimal level was €750. If the economy shall not rise as fast as hoped, it’s hard to talk about large-scale wage rise. The current four year economic forecast provides for hopes that the wages will rise. In the government, we have the agreement and understanding that certain sectors – education, culture, social affairs and internal security – should be favoured in terms of wage rise percentage.

But that does cover all the domains, essentially...

Well not all, really. In turn, there are lines drawn within these. Even in our ministry’s domain, it’s possible to grant certain agencies a bit less so others could get more on the account of that.

Talking about migration policy, compared to former interior minister Ken-Marti Vaher’s times there has been a mental turnaround regarding applications for asylum for humane reasons. Is supporting these related to the refugee problem from Ukraine?

First of all, yes. Here, the law is rather stiff and it would be justified to introduce additional discretion. As compared to 2013, Ukrainians now clearly stand out. From Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts, mainly. Beholding that situation, it would make sense to provide for easier residence permission for the most vulnerable at discretionary power, meaning families with small children and the elderly.

Remembering that during WW2, as Estonians fled the war to Sweden, we ourselves did expect them to be received with dignity as refugees of war.

Police have altered their former investigations tactic. They used to pretend everything is being investigated; now, they honestly say they only have time to deal with the substantial stuff. As a jurist and a politician, how do you view the approach?

Honesty is a must. True, it is not possible to investigate and discover all crimes. Our average crime detection percentage is above fifty. With serious crime against persons, such as rapes and killings, the percentage is substantially higher. There, the resources are more abundant and that’s the way it needs to be. The more serious a crime, the more it needs to be dealt with. The lesser the damage from a crime to the society, the smaller the resources to investigate that – meaning, they don’t manage to investigate it all. 

With mass crime, indeed they don’t manage to investigate it all. Regarding the category, domestic violence is a priority that is being dealt with, and the usual bicycle thefts are not dealt with at all.

When it comes to threat to society, these are differing crimes. On the one hand there’s material damage, on the other hand damage done to people. When talking about beatings, rapes, murders, we do realise these are not comparable to stolen bikes. It’s a pity about the bike, always, but one can get a new one. Human life can’t be brought back.

Talking about investigation capacity: years ago, the FBI in USA compiled world chart of cyber crimes detected, and three among the top ten were initiated from Estonia. A few years ago, the police cyber crimes department broke apart as its head went to work for Security Police. The capacity was lost; it is being attempted to restore that, but the hole is vast. We were standing out, on global level. How did we let the opportunity go?

I would not say we let it go. True, many things depend on definite persons. Talking about cyber crimes, obviously this is where the crooks are increasingly busy. We are trying to increase the cyber crime investigation capacity and I hope we will succeed.

HANNO PEVKUR

• Born on April 2^nd, 1977, in Iisaku
• Education: in 2002 graduated from law faculty at University of Tartu 
• Employment: 2003–2005, elder of Nõmme District, Tallinn; in 2007, rose to Riigikogu as replacement member; 2009–2012, social minister; 2012–2014, justice minister; since 2014, interior minister
• Married, father of two