Niinistö: it’s a time of deep distrust

Photo: Mihkel Maripuu / Postimees

Finnish President Sauli Niinistö (65) thinks joining NATO needs more essential arguments and less emotion, in his nation.

According to President of Finland Sauli Niinistö, Russia has violated international law in Ukraine. Despite the totally new international situation where Russia has altered the borders of Ukrainian state, the President thinks Finland joining the defence alliance is not actual.  

At the beginning of the year, you affirmed that for Finland, joining NATO was not on the agenda. Have you changed your stand after the events in Ukraine?

I think it is good if in Finland there is an essential debate on the topic of NATO, which is obviously needed instead of the two extremes saying «yes» and «no». But my standpoint has not changed since the start of the year.

You have said that instead of the argument a couple of decades old, we now need to seek new ones.

Actually, by this I wanted to remind both sides of consistency a bit. For a couple of decades now, both the yes-side and the no-side have been based on the assumption that the cold war is over. At the one side they say that that’s why may now successfully join NATO. On the other side they say, however, that that’s why there is no need to join NATO.

Now, in place of the cold-war-over inscription, there is at least a period of deep distrust. On the one side they now claim that as the peaceful post-cold war period is over, we need to join NATO. The others say no way, as now the blocks will be rebuilt. So, the argument is turned upside down, but both sides still seek support in the old place.

Especially on the yes-side they are saying that NATO has become more of a crisis management and peacekeeping organisation, so we need to be in it. But now as it is returning to the military side, again we are finding substantial reasons for joining – or avoid joining. I would like to be more essential argument, instead of such emotional debate.

How does Finland feel about NATO for the first time after its expansion is placing additional forces into Eastern Europe, like Estonia recently receiving 150 US servicemen?

This is a response to the overall change in the atmosphere. I would not talk about returning to the cold war times as yet. But now is the time of deep distrust and this is NATO’s reaction.

Is it okay that I will further explain my stand on the NATO debate? In my mind, we need to take our steps consistently and decisively. That entails keeping national defence on a good level, that entails close cooperation with Sweden, that entails a deepening cooperation with NATO and its development, and also – though not everybody believes in it – enhancing defence cooperation within the European Union. At least we are trying to activate that.

It is easy to say that Finland is taking a lenient stand regarding Russia, as they have historic ties to Russia and strung trade relations right now, the disruption of which is not in Finnish interests. What is Finland’s stand regarding Ukraine?  

On March 2^nd, there was a governmental discussion under my leadership where we clearly stated that violence and the threat of violence is against international law. As assessed by us, the threat of violence was clearly present due to the stand of the Russian parliament. I think that was the clearest and quickest or at least one of the quickest reactions by European states by that time.

Talking about history, we have much longer historic ties to Sweden, and a substantially larger Swedish speaking minority in Finland.

But there are also the geographical realities. Let’s, for instance, compare Finland and Ireland. Ireland is not the least moved by Russia does. And the Russians are hardly taking note of what the Irish are doing, as they are far from each other. The Brits, however, are surely following what Ireland is doing and Ireland must be especially observant about what the Brits are doing. We, however, are Russia’s neighbours.

You have got a personal contact with the Russian President Vladimir Putin, such as Estonian leaders do not have. Have you tried to use that channel, recently?

We have not had any contacts recently, but we did between February and March. I have met him several times and I will take contact as soon as the need arises. But we are not harbouring the idea in Finland that we could become vital somehow to solve the crisis. If our services are needed, we are always ready to offer these of course.

For this year, the European Commission is forecasting Finland economic growth of 0.2 percent. Are you satisfied with Finland’s growth expectations?

This is better than the minus that we have also seen. Finland is faced with serious economic challenges. In the 1990ies, I was finance minister during deep crisis. We came out of it successfully. We were helped by devaluation and during the same time the world around us was having economic growth, se we just had to climb upwards. Back then, people had a progressive spirit. We realised we had fallen deep and we had to get out.

In the 2000ies when we were already out of the hole I warned that if the middle class becomes complacent, the society will ossify. Meaning: having had good times for almost a decade now, this may lull toy to sleep. But now we have been awakened again and I believe that, being awakened, we will also start climbing higher as well.

Is the Finnish welfare society sustainable?

It is. For the very reason, and on the condition, that we are again awakened. Here, I’m not only referring to economic or business doctrines, but to a certain spiritual construction that we have. I mean being responsible for oneself, and taking the responsibility. We cannot go by the society taking care of everything. That will not mean dismantling the welfare model; rather, it means an attitude that everyone has to do according to as is reasonable with their abilities and circumstances. Should one thereafter do poorly, one can reasonably expect to be helped.

According to 2012 statistics published last year, every Finn paid €122 into EU budget. Finland is a net contributor, Estonia one of the biggest net receivers.

Almost the biggest, to my knowledge. But I do not envy you because of that.

What would be your advice to us, how Estonia could become EU net contributor?

Surely you will find yourselves among these, one day. Estonia is making progress and Estonia is doing so well that you will reach there without my advice. 

Finland, for instance, has a successful video game industry, which Estonia doesn’t have. Why is Finland so strong in this area?

Some say game industry is our great saviour, but there’s no reason to think that. These are great phenomena, but rather rare. Some companies have a couple of hundred jobs. Surely it’s very vitalising – maybe it’s good if from early on children come in contact with such nerdiness and they will develop another kind of mentality and creativity.

Dou you play Angry Birds?

I don’t play Angry Birds. In the computer, I mainly play chess, but other games as well – sometimes I slip into it for too long.